Some meta about hot chicks and handcuffs

[mhalachai]

Let's talk about the dark-haired girls used to introduce the shadowy world of crime-fighting.

Dark-haired woman, hot, trained in crime-fighting, not sure at first about the world into which she was tossed, and equally befuddled about her mysterious demanding boss and snarky chauvinistic male co-worker. And yet she soon becomes an integral part of the team, as well as the heart of the team (when the boss isn't being an aloof heartless ass for reasons that we, the viewer, initially know naught).

I am, of course, talking about NCIS (Kate) and Torchwood (Gwen), at the same time.

And I think NCIS did it better. Here's why.

See, I just started watching NCIS from the beginning of the series and I'm in love. Love love love. So I write the meta.

Of the two, Kate is the easier of the two for the audience to latch onto:

a) Competence. Kate was demonstrated to be more competent than Gwen in solving problems and dealing with stresses of her job. She exudes a more professional and law-enforcement trained persona than Gwen. It's not really fair to compare Torchwood and NCIS as to professionalism in procedure (as the shows are very different in oh-so many ways) but Kate is dropped into her new job doing an excellent job at meeting Gibbs' demands, and Gwen sort of flubs around in getting things done.

I think, however, that a lot of this can be pegged on the differing starting points of Kate and Gwen. Kate was already a highly trained Secret Service agent who was on the ground protecting the president. Gwen was a police constable who wasn't able to protect her head in a bar fight. However, the audience wants to root for a character who gets stuff right. I think Kate was written in a more sympathetic way here.

b) The affair. We don't have anything to compare it with on Kate, but Gwen cheated on Rhys with Owen (the Tony clone). I know it may make me sound old fashioned, but so be it: but it pisses me off when someone in a committed relationship cheats on their partner. It's a visceral reaction, true, but when I saw Gwen cheat on Rhys (who, at that point, had only been guilty of being slightly daft in amidst all his supportiveness) I lost a lot of my sympathy for her as the protagonist of the tale. Mainly because Gwen knew what she was doing was wrong and hurtful (as evidenced in Greeks Bearing Gifts).

With Kate, she remained firm in her moral standards. I've gone over this in my mind, as to if I'm being too harsh on my own gender, but I don't think so. To me, it boils down to honor, irregardless of gender. A protagonist has to maintain a sense of internal honor to be the hero of the piece. Even in "Dexter", our psychopathic serial killer has an internal code of honor he lives (and kills) by, and is as such a "successful" hero.

But if Gwen is a flawed individual, I think that she's more interesting than Kate in terms of the path she travels in seasons 1 and 2 of Torchwood. Yes, she screws up. Yes, she can be a bit of a hypocrite. But she's doing her best, she recognizes when she's messing up, she knows that Rhys is the best thing in the universe for her, and if Gwen's a little in love with her boss, that's okay too. She's not a comfortable character to like, and I think that's what contributes to some of the Gwen!hate (but that's a whole other meta piece).

Summation: Television is changing for the better when the audience is as willing to accept a woman as the hero of the piece as a man. Back in the day, in cop shows, men used as the protagonist assumed the role of classic chivalric knight: they may have been flawed in their personal lives, but were men of honor. They pursued justice. They stood up for the little guy. Wouldn't mistreat a lady. They were, in short, the men the male audience wanted to be and who the female audience wanted to sleep with.

Times have changed and it's now acceptable (maybe even moreso) to have a woman in that hero role. Buffy Summers jumps to mind as the one of the most extreme characters, literally fighting evil.

But because times never really change, women are still held to a higher moral standard by the audience, and that's why Tony DiNozzo can tomcat around town all he wants and is viewed as a playful scamp. To use a strictly Torchwood example, Owen can sleep around all over Cardiff and that's fine, if smarmy, but when Gwen steps out on Rhys it's a misstep of the higher order.

I'm talking in circles. To sum up: NCIS good! Torchwood good! Kate and Gwen pretty and awesome.

that's about it. Except to say that I haven't seen NCIS beyond season two because there are only so many hours in the day and I'm going as fast as I can.

One last thought on this: The madding crowd might say that it's not fair to compare the characters and shows, and I agree -- the shows are very different beasts, and there are different points being made with the characters. However, the similarities shown in being introduced to the worlds of NCIS and Torchwood through the use of the newbie officer was blatant enough for me to draw comparisons, and while I love both characters (yes, I love Gwen) I believe that Kate fits the traditional protagonist roles better on this one.

---

In other news

The Tin Man DVD came out recently and you should buy it. I had the idea the other day that having Zooey Deschanel as DG would have been even better if Emily Deschanel (from Bones) had been Azkadelia. Srsly. Actress sisters would be kick-ass character sisters. It would have given away the main plot point in the first part, but who cares. Epic awesome.

Comments

[rhianona]

While I don't watch NCIS, I was curious as to your view on Gwen. I have to say that your point (b) is a big reason I have a problem with her. Even in season 2, it bothered me that she married Rhys without telling him about her affair with Owen (without retconning him after the fact as she did in season 1). I also have to say I do not like any character that steps out on their partner whilst in a committed relationship. I think fidelity in a relationship is extremely important. I'm not a huge fan of Owen in part b/c I found his use of the pheromone spray to be morally dubious. I do like him better in season 2, but then I like most of the characters better in season 2.

[mhalachaiswords.livejournal.com]

I like Gwen, as one of many flawed characters in the show, I just don't view her as the one I identify with (which I think is what they were trying to do with her character back in the start of the show). As I said, I dislike how she treated Rhys in season 1, but she has been shown to have changed and I think that contributed to a certain amount of redemption.

Part of what contributes to my liking the character is the way she is portrayed. Eve manages to inject a certain amount of human emotion into a confused character.

Did that answer anything or am I being overly muddled? It's a difficult subject for me, these characters. I'm much better at describing my damaged hero worship.

[rhianona]

*nods* I got what you were saying about Gwen; I was trying to articulate my own love/hate relationship with her. I think, in part, the reason season 1 TW was so... uneven was that the writers focused so much on developing the Gwen character as a means of giving us insight into the world of TW that other characters fell to the wayside. It's one reason season 2 was better IMO, b/c it wasn't always focused on her, though they did continue it to an extent. There are a lot of things about her character that I wish they wouldn't have highlighted. One of the things I find most objectionable is the way she was pushed to the forefront from the beginning. She was the rookie, and all of a sudden, considered an expert or leader. and I don't buy it. the fact that I like Gwen at all is due to Eve's acting. I imagine in the hands of a less talented actress, I would find very little redeemable in her.

[mhalachaiswords.livejournal.com]

the fact that I like Gwen at all is due to Eve's acting.
Exactly! That's what makes me so ambivalent about the character. She made such shit decisions in season one. I didn't like how she was suddenly the leader when Jack vanished because it made no sense (I read a lovely fic the other month, "Shades of Ianto", when he and his experience at Torchwood One actually mean something. You know, making sense :)

I really do wonder what'll happen next season with her. Hopefully the trend of her being less annoying will continue.

Seriously, I love Eve.

[rhianona]

Shades of Ianto and sarcarsticchick are among my favorites. You should check out her latest. She has such a wonderful handle on Ianto.

But yes. When I heard she had taken over for Jack I sort of went: what? really? But why?
and I still don't get it.

Next season should be interesting, though I'm looking forward to DW finale since they are all supposed to be on it.

[sinanju.livejournal.com]

I've never watched NCIS but you make me think I should look into it. :D

That said, I agree with what you've said about Gwen. I was distinctly unimpressed with her at first. Couldn't protect her head in a bar fight, as you pointed out. Looked genuinely terrified the first time she had a gun pointed at her*, and had to be taught how to USE a gun by Captain Jack!**

I think the actress is very attractive, and I do like Gwen--I really don't get the Gwen!hate. But she had to draw me in. I didn't immediately seize on her as my ticket into Torchwood.

*As I would be, too. But a) tv heroes are generally made of sterner stuff, and b) she's a cop! Surely she's contemplated the possibility before! Which leads into...

**No, not necessarily. Culture clash ahoy! Most cops in Britain apparently don't carry guns and don't even get any training with them, from what I've been told. As an American, where the cops ALL carry guns (as do a fair number of ordinary citizens), the idea that a trained police woman would never have touched one before boggles my mind.

[mhalachaiswords.livejournal.com]

NCIS is an amazing show. It's very much about procedure and forensics under the detective story. I don't think I've once said to myself, "there's no WAI they'd do that in RL". Which is a record.

From what I heard when TW was first coming on the air, Gwen was going to be the everyman in the story (everyone else had that air of mystery about them, except Owen but that's a rant for another day). I don't think it came off as planned. I liked the actress and all that but I think Jack was the entry character for me.

I'm not sure if Cardiff is some kind of crime hotbed, but surely she'd have at least thought about what might go down if some criminal had a gun. (Then again, I'm from Canada where the cops have guns, and while the citizenry isn't as armed as our cousins to the south, rifles and shotguns aren't unknown in more rural parts. I think I fall into the same class as you on the culture clash)

[ariadne83]

I have to second the NCIS rec. McGee is my personal fav: geeky and cute, but NOT a social misfit (He actually dates ZOMG!)

[mhalachaiswords.livejournal.com]

I think it's been proven that chicks dig a smart guy who can actually hold a conversation with them. And that McGee is all kinds of awesome.

[lunamazes.livejournal.com]

Kate is so much better than Gwen, I don't mind cheating in TV show, it's a common human flaw what I don't like it that Gwen reconned Rhys afterward. I also don't understand how she justified her cheating.

You are starting NCIS, have you seen their first two episode in JAG?

[mhalachaiswords.livejournal.com]

I don't think Gwen justified her cheating as much as she decided to forget about it as much as possible.

I haven't seen the JAG eps, but I'll try and dig those up. Worth watching?

[lunamazes.livejournal.com]

I quite like it, especially Abby in it. It set before Kate.

[mhalachaiswords.livejournal.com]

I can't seem to find it yet, but I'll keep looking! I love me some Abby and will keep trying to find her.

[semirose.livejournal.com]

How far into NCIS are you? Kate is great, but my god I love Ziva.

[mhalachaiswords.livejournal.com]

i'm midway thru season 2 -- but I know how the season ends. I've seen an ep with Ziva (season 3, I think) and I think I'll like her too :D

I love that icon. Gibbs and Abby are so awesome.

[creepers58.livejournal.com]

I have to second the Ziva love here.

[emeraldswan.livejournal.com]

NCIS is one of the most consistantly well-written shows I've ever watched. I love the characters - all of them. One of my favorite things about the show is the evolution of the characters based on the cases/events in their lives . . . even if the change isn't automatically evident. I'm talking development over seasons, not episode arcs. I'm glad you're enjoying it so far. Where are you, episode wise?

[mhalachaiswords.livejournal.com]

My dad's been trying to get me to watch NCIS for like five years now. While I'm watching online, the history channel is showing season 1 again and we had an hour-long conversation about it at Father's Day dinner. I think my mom has a crush on Tony, because dude. Tony.

Ahem. I'm in the middle of season 2's "An Eye For An Eye", the one with eyeballs in the mail. I know how this season ends, and I've seen one of the season 3 eps with Ziva, but I love the way these characters develop. I think I'm in love with Abby. I hope that one day we get to see more about why she and Gibbs are so tight.

So now that I'm into this show, and Bones, what else do I need to see?

[emeraldswan.livejournal.com]

I'm a huge Abby/Gibbs shipper. Even wrote them (sorta) once. I like McGee a lot, too.

Let's see. We watch those two, House, CSI:NY, Rescue Me, Supernatural, Torchwood, Doctor Who, Attack of the Show, The Colbert Report, and The Daily Show. And that's when we remember they're on. We buy the dvds when they come out more than actually watching eps when they air. Torchwood is the exception. We didn't miss an episode of season 2 once.

[mhalachaiswords.livejournal.com]

I haven't gotten into NCIS fic yet; I'm waiting until I get to the end of season 5 before I dive into that, but the idea of Abby/Gibbs intrigues. I've seen a lot of Gibbs/DiNozzo flying around the internets, but not much else. But since Abby is made of awesome, I think I want to read up on fandom's take on her :)

Of those shows you watch, I follow Bones and NCIS (obv), and SPN, TW and DW. Haven't seen House since last year (fell away from it) and since I can't get Colbert or Daily online, I tend to surf the highlights. It's the best way to get American political news, anyway, which is sad.

Torchwood is one of those things for me that was an instant love. With some shows, I watch and like, but TW just grabbed me by the pancreas and dragged me along. But I think I have indicated such with my fics :)

Back to NCIS, I think one of the best things about it is the quality of the guest stars. They haven't really hit wrong yet.

[lanoger.livejournal.com]

I think the difference in the Tony and Owen vs Gwen is more about intent than moral 'absolutes'. Tony seems to be the kind of guy who has flings with people because it's fun, nothing more and nothing less. Both people involved know that and accept it and no one gets hurt. Gwen was in a committed relationship, as you said, and there was nothing innocent about it.

Now you can't really compare anyone to Anita Blake, but bear with me for a minute. Even in her case with the people she was sleeping around with all knowing about the others and, for the most part, accepting the situation, there's a reasonably strong negative reaction from the other characters and fans. I'm not going to do a Richard/Rhys comparison because this is weak enough already, but when sleeping around while involved with someone else is hurtful, it Shouldn't Be Done no matter which gender you are.

I always take protagonists cheating poorly, but casual sex still goes over better with fans when it's done by a guy, not a girl.

sorry, tl;dr

[mhalachaiswords.livejournal.com]

not tl;dr, you've seen the original post. Talk about ramble. I have it in spades.

One of the flaws in my argument is that NCIS is very much black and white, while Torchwood is all kinds of grey. Torchwood is designed to push people's buttons, while NCIS is playing to an American audience who want things right and wrong, good and bad. Tony can play around because for all his talk, he's an upstanding guy who has never (for what I've seen up to season 2) used this authority to coerce anyone sexually. Kate is the good Catholic girl who's good with guns and morally structured. Same can be said of all the NCIS team. Torchwood.... well, Owen's use of the sex spray in ep1 sort of says it all.

The Anita Blake analogy is an interesting one. I don't think that anyone can really stomach watching someone who's supposed to be a hero of the piece cheating on a partner. I think sleeping around is never going to be "accepted". Or at least, I hope.

I always take protagonists cheating poorly
When it comes down to it, cheating is a form of lying and deceit, and that's never really acceptable in a protagonist. As for casual sex, I think it's becoming more acceptable with women in the media, but I doubt it'll ever be viewed on an even basis. Oh, humanity. You're so weird.

[lanoger.livejournal.com]

Imagine what would happen if Tony did use sex spray and/or retconned her (him? them?) afterwards. The fallout would be hilarious.

I suppose it's also based on how accountable people are. NCIS is transparent and accountable to human laws while Torchwood is sort of alone on the frontier. They can play fast and loose as long as they stop the next apocalypse. It's not like Doctor 'there is no higher authority' Who is around much and Jack is, well, Jack.

[mhalachaiswords.livejournal.com]

I think that by us not knowing Owen when he pulled the sex spray thing, it was easier to later let it go (if not forgive). I think that Tony is a smarm, but he wouldn't cross that line. It's more of that black and white designation on NCIS.

You're right, NCIS is comfortably within the bounds of right and wrong. Torchwood is intentionally grey, with wacky Jack as the moral compass. And when Jack Harkness is the moral compass, god help us all.

[overlady-hikki.livejournal.com]

Just popped in to say hi, really, and that you just scored extra brownie points because NCIS is totally my other show! :P

Hope you get through the first two seasons soonish, because Ziva really rocks my socks!

[mhalachaiswords.livejournal.com]

I'm almost at the end of season 2 -- just one more ep to go!

[ariadne83]

One of the things I thought NCIS did well was the Abby/McGee relationship. For once it was the man seeking commitment, but when he didn't get it the woman wasn't demonised OR punished, and they remain friends.

Another one hooked!

[dotty8608.livejournal.com]

Yay! Yet another person hooked on NCIS! I love love love this show! I just recently got into it, and so haven't seen any of the fifth seaason (but am totally saving up the money to buy it as soon as it comes out on DVD) but yeah, watched the first season and fell in love. Bought all subsequent seasons sight unseen. Not a regret one. The show, to put it plainly, rocks face.

*looks forward to some wacky NCIS crossover fics in the future*

[crazy-vasey.livejournal.com]

She didn't just cheat, either, she cheated with the guy whose first appearance on the show was using a sci-fi version of a date-rape drug to get a one-night stand. And he didn't get much better from then on. Owen's just such a shit that it's hard to imagine how anyone could spend more than ten minutes in a room without kicking him in the balls.

Mind you, I gave up on Torchwood halfway through the first season, so he may have stopped being obnoxious at some point after that but I wouldn't know.

[autumnus]

I wish to see NCIS more. I only saw one episode so far. it seemed a bit pretentious but writing was good. Unfortunately I like watching things in order and season one is not available on ITunes.

Torchwood, I think you are being unfair to Gwen there. I think the whole point of the affair with Owen is that starting to work on Torchwood is traumatic. She is suddenly surrounded by these people who seem to make decisions on other peoples' life that are TOTALLY ethically questionable yet eight and has to deal with a scary reality. Key point is that she is alone. She cannot talk to Rhys, so only option left to her is to cling to someone who she can share this huge thing with before it burns her out. Wrong decision: hell yeah, especially because Owen is an ass and could take advantage of her. and yes she is being unfair to her boyfriend but I do not think that it makes her weak or even majorly flawed. Just human.

[autumnus]

eight -> right.

[lirulien.livejournal.com]

I am very old-fashioned regarding marriage and committed relationships, especially on cheating. I don't mind casual sex, I don't even mind seeking other sexual partners with consent of the existing partners. But I WILL NOT FORGIVE anyone, no matter their gender, who cheats on their domestic partner or equivalent.
I get that Gwen felt distant to Rhys, I get that she's a bit in love with Jack (because who wouldn't), but I totally do not get what the fxxk is that with Owen. Why does she have to cheat on the man she loves and whom loves her to make her "human"? She's got enough fault, enough imperfectness from however she handles things. And Owen. What an asshole who cannot keep his thing in his pants. I do not like Gwen and I do not like Owen in this. But I hate Gwen because she ret-con Rhys after telling him. I can only see her being manipulative and only seeking to make herself feel better, not really sorry for what she's done, not even sincerely apologising.
In short, I DO NOT LIKE GWEN COOPER.

Now Kate, Kate is great. I cried my eyes out when she's gone. NCIS's first two seasons ROCKS. Gwen Cooper cannot be compared with Caitlyn Todd in any way, is what I'm saying.

[whisperkat.livejournal.com]

Hi I just friended you. Hope that's ok. I've been reading your fanfic and just love it. I'm particularly loving the Angels and Drums series and Physics of the Spin.

[seirya.livejournal.com]

Fourth Season of NCIS will blow your mind. At least when it comes to Tony. You just want to take him and chain him to your bed.

If you like NCIS you might (might) like Criminal Minds. FBI profilers solving serial murders. Third season is best by far in my mind. The character developments in the first half was great.