Meta: Connections, at the Roadhouse: Supernatural meta (2x10 Hunters, spoilers)

[mhalachai]

Connections, at the Roadhouse

So. In Supernatural 2x10, Hunters, Gordon Walker, the hunter who previously encountered the Winchesters in Bloodlust, decides to go off that Sammy Winchester boy. Dangerous kid, right?

But this isn't an episode summary. My interested was peaked when, in response to Dean's demand about how Gordon learned about Sam's little secret and decided to go all Rambo on their asses.

Gordon: Look, you've got your Roadhouse connections, I got mine. It's how I found Sammy in the first place.

But who at the Roadhouse? Throughout the episode, Ellen seemed very supportive of Sam and Dean, and by extension so did Ash. I wondered for a while if Ellen or Ash had given up Sam, but then something occurred to me.

Ellen mentioned that Jo had bailed.

This all brought me back to something I read on the SPN website back in the day. From the Hunter's Blog section, from Jo:

Big Trouble
August 22, 2001

As I write this, I am, without a doubt, facing more trouble than ever before. And I really wish I could say it was a supernatural threat... but no such luck. For a while now, Gordon has been teasing me about the fact that I'm a hunter who's not allowed to hunt. He was getting a lot of laughs at my expense, which annoyed the hell out of me... but it also made me realize just how right he was. And how pathetic that makes me. So, last week, I walked right up to him and challenged him to take me along on a hunt. And, to my surprise, without missing a beat, he looked at me and said, "It's about time. I've been waiting for you to get up the nerve to ask me."

I told my Mom I was spending the night with a friend from school, which I should have realized was a lousy cover since I have never in my life gone to a sleepover with anyone. But she seemed to believe me. Gordon took me on a stakeout, at an abandoned factory just outside of town. He suspected a Rawhead was using the place as its lair, bringing back its prey to torment and kill. We were just running surveillance... and after about four hours, Gordon heard a noise... something off in the far corner. He headed over to investigate... the place was dark as hell, couldn't see a thing. I was hardly breathing, just trying to keep hidden and out of sight and listening for Gordon. When all of the sudden, I heard another noise - right beside me! I must have jumped ten feet, and then I did the only thing I could think of... I ran, full out... and smack into my mother. She'd caught on to my lie, tracked us down... and embarrassed this "hunter" more than I ever thought possible.

I've seen my Mom pretty upset... but nothing even compares with that night. I thought she was never gonna stop screaming at Gordon. I mean, I know she was freaked out, and I know I lied, but some of the stuff she was saying... like Gordon used me as bait to lure out the Rawhead... it's just so off base. But right now, there's no reasoning with her. I know, I tried.

Maybe I'll give it another try if she ever lets me out of my room...

Jo would have been about 16 at the time, and from reading that blog off the official site, Jo probably wouldn’t have seen Ellen's reasoning of distrusting Gordon. Incidentally, this incident would explain Ellen's violently negative reaction to Gordon, in that phone call with Sam in Bloodlust.

So, after learning that John Winchester was the reason her father was dead, Jo left the Roadhouse. She's no longer in the area, but she knew about Sam's origins (the nursery fire, the powerz). What's to say that Jo didn't spill the beans on Sammy's condition in a fit of angst?

I can't believe that Ellen or Ash were the source of Gordon's info at this point, mostly because I love them both so much. That may leaves Jo.

Who knows? But anyway, an idea.

ETA: Sam's location and Jo's absence from the Roadhouse at the time Sammy-boy headed to Indiana.

In comments, people have brought up a very good point -- Jo wasn't at the Roadhouse when Sam pulled the whole "I'm going to Indiana!" thing, and therefore couldn't have told Gordon about the location.

However: What I initially meant above was that Jo could have told Gordon about Sam and the other children, which meant that Gordon would give the demon's words about Sam greater credence.

I'll post an expanded version of the text from the show here:

GORDON
Yeah? Come on, Dean. I know. About Sam's visions. I know everything.

DEAN
Really? Because a demon told you?
(laughs)
Yeah, and it wasn't lying.

GORDON
Hey, Dean. I'm not some reckless yahoo, okay? I did my homework. Made damn sure it was true. Look, you've got your Roadhouse connections, I got mine. It's how I found Sammy in the first place.

The placement of that line is what led me to believe he wasn't talking about Sam's location in regards to the Roadhouse Connections. And Gordon is (from what we've seen) an accomplished hunter -- it's not outside the realm of possibility that he found Sam.

(Because if not, if someone at the Roadhouse actually did give up Sam's location, it would have to be Ellen or Ash and that would make me sad. I'll save the "Is Ellen Evil?" thoughts for another day.)

Comments

[kaylashay81]

That blog thingy from the official site gives that train of thought more credance. Someone else pointed out one thing though on the Jo front. Someone had to know that Sam was going to Indiana to tip off Gordon...

Although, (thinking as I type here) perhaps no one told Gordon Sam was in Indiana. Someone told Gordon that Sam was one of the kids and told him what to look for to find them all. Perhaps Gordon was still there after offing electro!boy and saw Sam investigating. This just happened to save him the trouble of hunting Sam down. Which means his informant told him of the "special" kids, but he lucked into catching Sam in Indiana... Hmmmm.....

My first thought was Ash because of the quickness in getting the info for Sam. However, that just seemed too convenient. Jo is a more likely suspect, but still kind of convenient. Grrrrr... I don't know.

[mhalachaiswords.livejournal.com]

I will admit, I was so hyped by the idea that Jo would have told Gordon that Sam was "special" that I missed the whole idea of her being unable to know about Sam's trip to Indiana.

(Although, we know that Jo and Ash were friends, so it's possible that Ash mentioned the whole thing to Jo, and Jo then told Gordon.)

I do believe, though, that if Gordon was tracking Sam, he'd be able to find him. Especially if Gordon was motivated.

If Ash is the one who spilled the beans on Sam, I will be sad. But it is a possibility. As is the possibility of Ellen being evil. Which would be vastly entertaining.

[kaylashay81]

I think my mind has put up a block that it can't be Ellen. Which probably isn't a good thing... Part of me wants it to be Jo, cause I didn't really like her from the get-go. It always turns out to be something we didn't of though.

[mhalachaiswords.livejournal.com]

I love Ellen so much that I too have a similiar mental block, but if you dig down, I think that Ellen would be a delicious bad guy/gal. Samantha Ferris plays Ellen with a lot of character (pardon the phrasing) -- the freeness of the villian role would rock.

(Plus, we really only have her word that she was a friend of John's -- John's dead and can't refute, and we know John never talked to the boys about the Roadhouse. Hrm, a lovely idea)

[satyrnfive.livejournal.com]

Evil!Ellen could be pretty sweet. What a twist! ;)

[kristen257.livejournal.com]

I finally had the chance this morning after a long absence away from the world of fanfic to read what you've posted of Dawning Light. I love it. You made me weep with sadness for Dawn, Anita, and Nathaniel.

But I also read your post on the third about Ms. Hamilton's blog entry. Would it offend you if I said I'm sad to see you leave the fandom? Sometimes I've wondered if you were Ms. Hamilton in disguise getting her kicks writing crossovers she could never publish. You have one of the best Anita voices I've ever read. I may not like everything that's canon either but I thought things were looking up with the last book. That's just my opinion though and I don't want to make you feel pressured to stay with the fandom just because I adore your writing so much.

Honestly, I don't think Laurell was really talking about fans like you who've grown discontented with the series. It was my impression she was talking about people who got rather vicious in their opinion about her and the books and thought she should write the books the way they demanded. It just seemed like she was hurt by people going to her message board and flaming her and lashed out because she was hurt like most of us fanfic writers do who get flamed instead of people just keeping their dislike to themselves and their friends rather than spilling it all over the writer. I freely admit I don't hang around the boards and only read her blog post though so I could be misinterpreting things completely.

There's that, and I hate to see you stop writing AB fanfic when you're so amazing at it. Its a selfish desire on my part. I'm holding out hope that your feelings will let you finish your stories like you've assured us you will. Though I understand if your dislike of the author and the books get to be too much and don't let you finish them at some point in the future. I know I can't bear to watch reruns of Angel eps after a lot of what happened in season 4 and 5. I'm only working to finish a story I started long ago and probably won't be writing any new Angel fic in the future ever again.

Personally, I actually got rather excited about the AB fandom again with the last book and the spoilers for the upcoming Harlequin look very interesting. I thought things might be taking a turn for the better but I realize I shouldn't be talking about my interest in the fandom since this is your blog and I know you're no longer a fan. Sorry.

I've got a million other friends posts to catch up on but just one thing before I go, please? Is AB the only fandom you won't be writing fanfic for anymore in the future?

[lunalovegoddess.livejournal.com]

Hmm... I've been wondering about this, too.
I had not read anything from the website, though. That blog really explains a lot, then.

[mhalachaiswords.livejournal.com]

The website is like canon-lite -- all the annoying plot details but with half the calories! Anyway, yes, there was a lot of explainations on the website about the Roadhouse crew. Which helps a lot in trying to understand their motivations (like why Ellen was so anti-Gordon)

[polykleitos.livejournal.com]

I was suspicious of Jo too. But, Jo wasn't anywhere near the Roadhouse when Sam decided to go to Indiana. How would she have been able to tell Gordon where to find him?

[mhalachaiswords.livejournal.com]

Initially, when I wrote this, I was speaking about how Gordon knew about Sam's skills in the first place. But I wasn't clear (that's what happens when it's late). I clarified (or at least tried to) in the post. Sorry about the meandering thought process that skipped a few steps.

[page-r.livejournal.com]

Not that I know a single thing about Supernatural, and the context might clear this up, but what if the comment meant more, "You've got your Roadhouse connections, I got mine." as in, "I've got my own connections similar to yours at the Roadhouse. (but different people)" I dunno, I just thought it could be read like that. (Before one starts getting _too_ paranoid about some people selling out some other people and ... other stuff) Yeah, but I don't know if that makes sense within the context of the show or not. *shrugs*

[mhalachaiswords.livejournal.com]

True. However, it's possible to apply the "Ellen on the side of the Winchesters" logic to Jo being on Gordon's side.

I will admit that it's highly likely that I'm making something out of nothing. I tend to do that.

[page-r.livejournal.com]

But hey! Making something out of nothing is part of the fun with series'! Of course, they can have their downside when you come up with some elaborate theory which is later proved totally incorrect. >:[ I'm still bummed that Dawn didn't end up having super-powers at the end of Buffy, I mean, if you were a monk, wouldn't _you_ have given her super-powers??? If I could be arsed, I've got a whole plot figured out for a fanfiction, but I really, really can't be arsed. *le sigh*

[hellspearx17.livejournal.com]

I had a similar discussion during the last commercial break, about who it was. We also came up with Jo, rationalizing it through her anger over John's involvement with her Dad's death. So if she'd been upset, talking to someone (presumably Gordon, but he could've been eavesdropping), and she let it slip, it might be in her nature to vindictively continue on in what she was saying. Besides, she isn't all that ready to hunt, so how could she be really aware of the danger of letting this info go- especially if she's upset?

Oh, I'm so glad I'm not the only one who came up with that solution.

^_^

[mhalachaiswords.livejournal.com]

Exactly! She didn't have to be doing it maliciously, just a little anger at the situation and then something slips. Bam. Of the three at the Roadhouse (Ellen, Ash and Jo) Jo would be the most likely to talk to Gordon, who she knew from before. Ellen, not so much (based on her reaction in the show and on the Jo blog) and Ash? Ash has only been there for a while, why would he trust Gordon? (A very good question, actually).

And great minds think alike :D

[hellspearx17.livejournal.com]

Yeah, unless Ellen has some MASSIVE trustability issues that are gonna paint her as a future villain, I don't see her being the one to tell Gordon anything about her "boys." And Ash is just too...kooky to be a bad guy. He's a nut, but not evil. Unless of course Kripke's really determined to make us paranoid of EVERY non-Winchester character by the end of season 3.

^_^

[satyrnfive.livejournal.com]

My gut instinct said Ash since he "found" the info so quick but after that blog link about Jo I am leaning more towards her. She is starting to fit the "Anakin Skywalker" mold more and more. She really needs Yoda to tell her where anger leads.

And it seems that Kripke is all about some Star Wars lore. I know that in some DVD commentary I heard they told Jensen Ackles to just be Han Solo.

Dean=Han Solo
Sam=Luke Skywalker
Missouri=Yoda
Impala=Millenium Falcon
Gordon=Boba Fett (okay it's a stretch but for some reason his El Camino reminds me of Slave I)
Ava=Princess Leia
Ol' Yellow Eyes=The Emperor

[mhalachaiswords.livejournal.com]

In the pilot DVD commentary, Kripke stressed the Star Wars comparison, as JA tried out for Sam but when JP was a better fit, Kripke or someone called up Jensen and said "Hey, wouldn't it me SO MUCH COOLER to be Han Solo?" etc.

I can totally see Gordon as Boba Fett. And Ava as Princess Leia, too :)

Have you seen this SPN fanvid?

http://community.livejournal.com/supernaturalvid/342274.html

[kaylashay81]

...and we digress!

Ava=Princess Leia

That doesn't computer for my master plan of seing Ava and Sam hook up, cause you know that whole Luke/Leia brother/sister issue...

PS: The video you linked to Mhal is awesome... Saw it the other day and died of laughter.

I saw that someone else mentioned the thought that Gordon wasn't talking talking of The Roadhouse specifically but that he had connections similar. This was the first way I interpretted that line for about 10 seconds before I went, "Who is it?!" I don't think they would introduce an unknown entity as Gordon's source, so that it was meant literally that someone from the Roadhouse tipped him off.

[ant-power.livejournal.com]

I totally agree with you. I also think that Jo most likely told Gordon about Sam not out of spite or anything but because she trusts him and wanted to look like she knew something that he didn't. There's a real theme in Jo's journal about how she doesn't know so much and it seems to really bug her, so I have no problem in believing she would tell Gordon 'hunter to hunter' to give herself a bit more credibility. They make sure that Jo mentions in her journal that she's kept in touch with Gordon as well, which I think is important.


Hey, Dean. I'm not some reckless yahoo, okay? I did my homework. Made damn sure it was true. Look, you've got your Roadhouse connections, I got mine. It's how I found Sammy in the first place.

The placement of that line is what led me to believe he wasn't talking about Sam's location in regards to the Roadhouse Connections.

That's a really interesting point and I'm glad you brought it up. I really don't want to think it could be either Ellen or Ash either but that line threw me, but in that context it works into the Jo theory perfectly.

I am absolutely convinced Ellen wouldn't have said anything to Gordon, because she warns Sam off them in Bloodlust and also because by Gordon saying 'You have your roadhouse connections, I have mine' when Dean says he spoke to Ellen, that's basically the same as Gordon saying 'I have roadhouse connections who are different from yours and therefore not Ellen'.

[allzugern.livejournal.com]

Unless Ash or Ellen filled her in, Jo didn't know about Sam's powers or that he was connected to the demon. The only thing she heard was that Sam was looking for someone specific who's mother died in a nursery fire like Sams. There was no talk about any kind of powers then, and when she tries to get info from Dean, he blows her off. Sam did talk to Ellen, but Ellen made a point of sending Jo away to get a case of beer. Jo doesn't come back into the room until they are finished discussing. Ellen obviously doesn't want Jo to know what is going on, so for me that rules out her telling Jo anything about Sam. Ash *could* have told Jo, but somehow I don't think he did.

What struck me in Hunted, was what Ash says to Sam. He come back pretty quickly with the info, and when Sam says 'That was fast' Ash says something very odd 'Apparently that's my job...make the monkey dance at the keyboard.' I was struck at how bitter this sounded, and how Ash seemed to be saying he didn't realise it was his job to be everyone's gofer-boy -- which says he is feeling under-appreciated and taken for granted. As he and Ellen were the only ones who knew he was headed for Indiana, I'm gonna have to go with Ash being the snitch. Much as I hate it, it's the only thing that makes sense. While I would *love* for it to be Jo, I think it's just too easy and pat an explanation.

[andromakhe001.livejournal.com]

But if you watch that scene Jo doesn't actually leave. She remains in the room when Sam starts spilling. So Jo definitely heard it or else it was strange to leave her in the room when he started talking.

[allzugern.livejournal.com]

Oh no. She definitely leaves the room. She comes back at the very end with the case of beer Ellen told her to go get. If you look at the room set-up at the very end, you'll see that Ellen has a perfect view of the back area (maybe a kitchen?) and that whole side of the bar from where she is standing. She would have seen Jo if she had been hiding and trying to listen in. Since she also came back with the case her mother sent her for, there is no reason to think she was in the room.

[andromakhe001.livejournal.com]

I know that which is what I'm basing my thoughts on. It's not like Sam was trying to keep it down, I have no doubt Jo was able to hear him unless she's totally deaf. The conversation was still on going when she came back in, she only missed about a sentence of it if that considering she came back so quickly from getting the beer it must have been right on the other side of the door. In fact I remember at the time of the episode alot of people were like "Ellen just asked her to leave the room but she's still right there and must be able to hear everything so what was the point?"

[allzugern.livejournal.com]

Not to be nit picky, but Ellen wanted her out. She tells her to 'Go pull-up another case of beer, honey. Now. Please'. Jo walks past Dean and goes towards the back of the bar.

In a bar, beer is kept in a cellar so it's cool, hence the term 'pull-up' a case. Jo had to go down to the cellar to get it. She leaves empty handed and comes back at the very tail end with the case. Ellen can see from where she is standing the entire area where Jo would go or would be standing. Ellen tells her to leave for a reason. She doesn't want her to hear. It would be ridiculous to think she would allow Jo to stay. Anyway, like I said before, Jo comes back at the very end, with the case, from the direction Ellen is watching, when they aren't talking aobut anything she would be able to make heads or tails out of. No way she got any of the conversation. If you have the ep, watch it again. Especially the perspective of the bar in the last frame.